|
|
Post by Dieter on Feb 22, 2004 19:51:30 GMT -5
Hi, we all know, if we knit fast, both needles get hot in our fingers.  Can be said similar to engine mods. The faster it runs the hotter it gets, but where and why and how can we measure ? Equipment and Sensors. Which equipment to use. (without 52mm dial indicators on the dash, they are boring and don't store data for later investigations) Do you work for a modern electronics production company ? ISO 900x certificated ? With SMT Reflow ? In this case it's dead easy. Get in touch with your Q-Engineer and borrow their battery data logger with two or more thermocouple sensors incuding verification software. Another one is paper x-t scriber equipment with up to 36 channels and different type of availiable sensors. Palm and other PDA with interface cable option www.veriteq.com/sgo/Sensors- NTC Thermistors (resistance) - Thermocouples (low voltages) - PT100 Resistors One important sensor is already installed to the MGF  The black or blue coloured NTC Sensor (to gauge) at the coolant outlet. (Do not use the brown ECU Sensor) Our good old Carl did already a couple of measures to find the hottest location at the K-Engine. Need to contact him at any time. naff for this night. PS. I've myself a paper x-t scriber, 6 channel, but only 230V power supply and PT100 sensors. 12VDC_2_230VAC adapter bought already. |
|
|
|
Post by Rob Bell on Feb 23, 2004 8:55:23 GMT -5
Dieter, you are a hero! ;D Fantastic - that Palm interface looks perfect. I could not see how much these interfaces cost though: any ideas?
Using the existing blue gauge sensor for monitoring makes complete sense. The choice, and location of the other thermocouples is open for discussion...
|
|
|
|
Post by Dieter on Feb 23, 2004 14:33:57 GMT -5
Palm options. Not sure whether the veriteq stuff really provides what's needed. May be the Plam get's used to 'display' readings from a data logging box. I need to say, I don't like purchasing hardware or software. The problem is, you buy anything, but don't know how it works and what it really does. I reffer to plug and play options. Expensive sensors, casuse you only can get them where you bought the other stuff for plug and play. Anyway. Some restrictions due to the technology of sensors. Precision class: Let me use my own and face on three: A is the best B is less precise C is lowest precision Wherein the *absolute* presision is a question for it's own. I think if you compare two measures with the equal equipment, then the difference of readings should be precise, but not the absolute rate. With other words. It's less important whether the water boils at 100.8° C (due to the height of measurement location) It's more important that I know: The difference of water boil temp between height of 4000 feet and height of 10000 feet is 5.8°. Do you get me ? NTC, or PTC thermistor, almost the cheapest _looking_ option. temp. range up to 85° C only. Class B Easy to calculate by any electrician. Thermocouple, expensive if you buy 'ready made', but very cheap if you DIY. temp. range up to 1000°C Materials are two wires only. The required tool to make the _weld dot_ depends on what wires you have. Some could get weld with a pre-loaded big capacitor (1000µF/50V) Class C A bit more difficult to calculate due to correction values. (Me has a little experiance and data) PT100 (IEC751 standard) More expensive then the first mentioned sensors. temp. Range up to 390°C Calculation the same easy as NTC/PTC Class A Data LoggerAnother option HOBO. www.microdaq.com/occ/h8/4channelx.phpThe 155EURO solution (for 2 sensors) www.produktinfo.conrad.com/datenblaetter/100000-124999/100359-an-01-en-data_logger_thermometer_306.pdfto be enhenced -------------------------------------------------------------------------------[glow=red,2,300] [update 24.02.04 links added] << wount blow the thread, but just edit. www.vernier.com/go/index.html 39 $ USB temp sensor www2.vernier.com/booklets/sts.pdfFor aducation availiable, any other source known ? More professional (useful temp range !! www.sef.de/eltronic/zubehoer/57070/main.htm?neinwww.sef.de/eltronic/dl/zub.pdfUK based, Rob, how about try first then buy options  www.microlink.co.uk/752.htmlGoogle shows more with *USB temperature* [/glow] Last idea for the day is getting in touch with a well know MGTF guy from the University in BATH. |
|
|
|
Post by Rob Bell on Feb 24, 2004 7:09:49 GMT -5
Wherein the *absolute* presision is a question for it's own. I think if you compare two measures with the equal equipment, then the difference of readings should be precise, but not the absolute rate. With other words. It's less important whether the water boils at 100.8° C (due to the height of measurement location) It's more important that I know: The difference of water boil temp between height of 4000 feet and height of 10000 feet is 5.8°. Do you get me ? Completely understand what you are saying Dieter  As we are wanting to measure changes in temperature rather than the absolute temperature to the 10th decimal place, there is absolutely no reason to opt for very expensive 'class A' sensors. Anything reasonably affordable in B or even C would probably do the job nicely Given that we are dealing with engine coolant, we'd probably need a temperature range of up to 120 maybe 140C? Unfortunately, this means that the 85C NTC/PTC thermistors are unlikely to be up for the job  |
|
|
|
Post by Neil Loud Fer and Labrat on Feb 24, 2004 8:37:52 GMT -5
Blimey!
This is VERY Interesting
I would bet that MGR wouldnt mind seeing the results !
|
|
|
|
Post by Rob Bell on Feb 27, 2004 15:16:24 GMT -5
Blimey! This is VERY Interesting I would bet that MGR wouldnt mind seeing the results !  LOL Indeed! Dieter, how much are each of these temperature sensors likely to cost? |
|
|
|
Post by Dieter on Feb 27, 2004 17:23:17 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Dieter on Mar 1, 2004 17:20:47 GMT -5
Err, EUR 145,44 currently for the 4 channel Testo. Nearly two days left (03.03. app 10 am) That would be an ideal tool for logging 4 channels with high resolution. ;D New price would be 1.624 EURO  Battery is missing though (Lithium special for 50 EURO from OEM only) |
|
|
|
Post by Rob Bell on Mar 2, 2004 8:17:10 GMT -5
I'm hoping that Tim Jenner is going to be able to come through for us on a PC-based logging system Dieter - but the 'professional' kit sounds and looks good!
Nuts, need a translator...
|
|
|
|
Post by Dieter on Mar 2, 2004 18:27:07 GMT -5
I'm hoping that Tim Jenner is going to be able to come through for us on a PC-based logging system Dieter - but the 'professional' kit sounds and looks good! Nuts, need a translator... Translator ? Err. try Google with "Testo 171-4"  www.testo.co.uk/640/testo171temp.htmThe only disadvantage is, the sensors supplied look strong, but quite big. Still spot on the auction, but some 'other' seam to know also what it's worth .... now @ 177 EURO .. increasing. I had a bid prepared for 'auctionsniper' limited to 151.51 EURO ... OK it shouldn't be  Assume it will go up to 400 or more at last, cause the offered kit includes TWO assy's. A two channel temperature and hunidity logger type 171-6 is included as well. The seller says only the (expensive) industrial humidity sensor is missing. Regarding Tim Jenner .... where in heaven _is_ Tim ?? btw, welcome Tony T. !!! ;D |
|
|
|
Post by Dieter on Mar 27, 2004 15:40:42 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Rob Bell on Mar 29, 2004 6:18:37 GMT -5
Sounds promising Dieter... ;D
|
|
LOL Indeed!
