K Series Head

[JP12]

Hi,

Looking for some advice guys. I have been offered a fully assembled ported MPi head. The work has just been completed and the head is like new.

So how much is it worth? It's had extensive porting, but only 2 angle valve seats with original size valves.

It's for the MGB ;D

Thanks
Joe

[Rob Bell]

Hi Joe,

welcome aboard the Knitting Circle ;D

Difficult to value a ready ported head - not least because it is difficult to know how well the work had been carried out in the first place. As many will tell you, there are loads of mistakes that can be made and moreover, not all ported heads are 'equal' - to paraphrase George Orwell in Animal Farm - "some are more equal than others"

Do you know who performed the original work Joe?

I think I'd be offering about 50% of new kit price - depending on condition.

[JP12]

Rob,

the work was done by my mate who has a good reputation. He was doing the head for another customer who has now pulled out as they want a full engine build and he doesn't have the facilities to do it.

He got more out of my B series head than one of the top UK tuners (not mentioning names!), so I trust that his work is quite good.

How much is 50% of new kit price?

BTW I posted on Xpower too, so no need to reply over there.

thanks
Joe

[Rob Bell]

Sounds as though you trust the guys work then! Do you know how much he was going to charge the guy who originally ordered the head?

The next step in determining the price is how much work was performed on that head and what, exactly, is being sold to you.

Are you getting a complete head with cams, fully built?
Are you getting a re-programmed ECU?

How much work has been performed on the head? What is the anticipated power out put?

As a guide, the well-respected engine-tuner, Dave Andrews, charges between £400-1600 for his ported heads: take a look at his website - it could give you some idea of a guide price for the head you're after - members.aol.com/DVApower/

Dave's heads use multi-angled valve seats and has dramatically re-shaped ports whose angle is more inclined than on the standard head.

[TimW]

Joe,

I didn't know you knitted....

Another factor to consider is what cams are provided. A quick look at the Piper cams website will show that cam kits don't come cheap, upto ±£400 with verniers. If it's a new head you should consider the number of hours spent porting and assembling the head. That may be in excess of 15hours of skilled work.

As Rob says take a peak at DaveA site and then take a view, since this is in essence abrand new ported head I would make an offer close to a new price -20% say.

Also consider whether this head is suitable for your purpose, if you're looking for 145-150bhp this should be suitable but if you're looking for higher figures you may want to stick with the original idea of a VVC.

Tim

[Neil Loud Fer and Labrat]

A standard clean head loaded with standard cams etc is worth £200-250 in my estimation

[Neil Loud Fer and Labrat]

A ported head is worth more see Dave Andrew's site for prices I suggest you offer I dunno £400 ish depends on the work done

[dave]

Here are some actual costs, which may help:

Port head - 450.00gbp
Remove old guides, taper and fit new and recut seats - 50.00gbp
Match plenum and fettle exhaust manifold - 25.00gbp
Set Colsibro guides - 108.00gbp
Set valve stem seals - 18.80gbp

This what I paid to Dave Andrews when he ported my VVC head. This was for a full porting job i.e. Dave's best work. ;D

Remember that all of the above is on a cylinder head that I already owned!

[dave]

Oh and I forgot to mention - Dave Andrews doesn't think much of even three angle seats. He goes for a radius - more work, but he believes that it's worth it.

[dave]

Another BTW

I just heard from poor old Stu D i c k e n s (had to spell that out as this software replaced his name with 'thingyens' !!!) who is still trying to get his HGF fixed. There is some concern that his cylinder head may need replacing. So he got a quote from Dave Andrews for a second hand VVC head (unported) - sold as seen - £450.

Mike Satur has quoted Stu £450 to port his existing head, assuming it is sound.

It seems £450 is a magic number for all sorts of things

[Rob Bell]

Dave, what do you make of Thierry's claims that his DVA ported 160 VVC head with standard MEMS, an FSE but a warmer exhaust cam is making up to 192 bhp on the rollers?

Makes me think that the RR calibration is out - but as yours, with a mild, standard exhaust cam is putting out 175, a power output of around 185 seems realistic?

[dave]

Rob said:

Dave, what do you make of Thierry's claims that his DVA ported 160 VVC head with standard MEMS, an FSE but a warmer exhaust cam is making up to 192 bhp on the rollers?

Makes me think that the RR calibration is out - but as yours, with a mild, standard exhaust cam is putting out 175, a power output of around 185 seems realistic?

Yes, this sounds a reasonable explanation. DVA pushed me to go for the exhaust cam, but I was wary at the time. I wonder what he'd think it would add to the equation. I would expect that Emerald's new VVC 3MD would help extract some more too. Timing through verniers would probably help as well, but the last time I spoke to DVA he said that there were no Verniers for the VVC - I wonder if this has changed? My technical knowledge is innsufficient to understand why you have verniers unique to the VVC. I need a knitting experience to help me

[Rob Bell]

I'm as much in the dark over the 'venier for VVC' question as you are Dave! I've only just got my head around veniers for 'solid' cams!!!

Would one need THREE VVC venier cam wheels?

[JP12]

Well I have been offered the head for 450, but I may be able to negotiate on price. ( I think, lol)

I don't have a head to exchange, so this is for the head plus all the work that has been done.

I will find out the full spec of the head later on as I am going over to have a look at it.

Thanks
Joe

[dave]

JP12 said:

Well I have been offered the head for 450, but I may be able to negotiate on price. ( I think, lol)

There's that magic number again!

Sounds reasonable to me Joe, especially if you can negotiate it down a little.