Camber adjustment

[AndyBrad]

Hi folks newbie here

Righty then i had the TF tracked up a while back only to find that i have differing amounts of camber arround the car. For some reason things like this bother me so ive been looking into different methods of chamber adjustment on the TF (not F although im sure some things are the same) Firstly i was supprised by the lack of adjustable suspension components on the market. What with the F cup etc you would have thourght it would be an ideal oppertunity. However.

Anyways i need a bit of help and advice. Firstly the front. I have looked at this and i believe that the best method of adjusting the camber would be an adjustable bottom arm arangement. If we take the ball joint section then i would say there are two good options.

1. new bottom arm with screw adjustable fabricated adjustable ball joint section.

2. original arm with slotted holes and shims. I would have thourght that somone would have tried this before but it appears not. Is there a specific reason?

Now i would be willing to draw up some designs for the fabricated bottom arms if somone can help me out with a spare bottom arm? good idea/ bad?

Anyways still thinking about this.


At the rear i see we have a lower tie bar. I believe if i make an adjustable version you could use this to alter the camber. Can anyone help on this? It looks like a simple solution and from ive had similar on minis in the past (oh and had them shear as well!!!)


And lastly if you lower a car my 20mm what is the general % effect on the camber?



Basically just after input really as this seems like a more technical forum than most others.

Chears folks and keep knitting.

[Rob Bell]

Welcome aboard Andy

Funnily enough, I've discussed the question of camber adjustment many years ago now with Roger Parker, who reasoned that the easiest way to achieve this at the front end is through slotting of the lower suspension arm as you suggest in option 2 so as to move the lower ball joint. Absolutely no idea why this hasn't been done commercially - perhaps a question of ensuring that the adjustment doesn't move in practice?

A rear tie-bar/ camber adjuster is actually available - from Mike Satur (see his web site - www.mikesatur.co.uk/) - it's fabricated in alloy and fully adjustable. I know that Andrew (Scarlet Fever) Phillips has a pair of these on his car.

However, the bottom line is that a little negative camber (as you see with suspension lowering) doesn't result in grossly bad angles - in fact, it could be argued that it is a 'good thing' in terms of handling performance. Certainly, it is not adequate to lead to abnormal patterns of tyre wear for example. For this reason, I've not followed this up any further: the cost would, IMO, outweigh the gains - but the idea is an interesting one!

I'd definitely give you a lower suspension arm if I had one! Unfortunately, I don't - but I wonder whether one of the other guys have? Failing that, the MGF Centre would be worth contacting, as they are usually very helpful with requests such as this

[dave]

Hi Andy,

You can also talk to Techspeed about this as the cup cars use a slightly different length lower suspension arm at the rear, which gives them slightly more negative camber. I have these fitted to my car, but I'm not sure you'd see an awful lot of difference lining up my car against another lowered car.

Dave

[Rob Bell]

I didn't know that you'd had that done Dave? ;D You're car is just full of secrets!

[dave]

Rob said:

I didn't know that you'd had that done Dave? ;D You're car is just full of secrets!

LOL - no - it's just that I occasionally remember something!

[AndyBrad]

well the first thing regarding MS rear tie bar thingys is they are for MGF only. Bit of a stumbling block there only having a TF and all. + 250 quid. With the adjustable arm i could (in batches of 10) well them for 55 quid and still make a tidy proffit and thats from high carbon steel and powder coted. Much stronger.

I feel i need to adjust the camber (personally) as its diffrent from side to side (ie rns = -2.3 deg ros = -1.4deg a fair bit out imo. + you would then be able to adjust for diff suspension, track etc etc. i see a definate oppertunity here.


Its interesting about the slotting of the arm.

[Rob Bell]

D'oh! Yes, you're right: Mike's kit is MGF only.

One thing that you might consider looking at are the suspension bushes. On a number of occasions F owners have reported having problems with errant camber figures - which were subsequently corrected when they'd had their car's suspension replaced with PU items.

It is something of an extreme thing to do to spend that amount of money on buying and then having the bushes fitted, but the improved suspension control is something that many people feel makes that expense worth it.

In your case, again, it may be worth considering - but I do very much like your idea of being able to adjust camber, both front and rear.

What do you think you're able to have made?

[AndyBrad]

I can get anything made although it would depend on production run etc.

[Rob Bell]

I guess that is the crux of the problem. If 10 car sets is the minimum, then that leaves you with a slight problem of needing to sell on the remaining 9 sets? Difficult to judge the scale of the market of items like these: Mike Satur seems to be taking for ever to sell the camber kits he had made, but I don't know how many he had made up?

Out of curiousity, do you know anything about adapter brackets for brake calipers? Been thinking of using Lotus rear calipers for a brake conversion on my car... (apologies to all for wildly off topic question!)

[AndyBrad]

I can have one offs made of whatever i produce. Do you race? i think theres something in my mind that says yea.

Anyways maybe 2 sets one for somone who is going to put it through hard usage and provide reports. interested?

With regards tot he brakes i have no idea. However if you need something drawing up ill do it for ya. Time dependent of course.

[Rob Bell]

I sprint and hillclimb at the moment Andy, but confess to an overriding urge to go racing (the MGCC enduro races sound like fun - just need to find a suitable and CHEAP car to do it with!)

A 2-off set of suspension parts sounds more 'containable' cost-wise, but presumably your unit cost is going to be much higher?

Regarding the brake adapter - there are a number of variables that I simply don't have at the moment (particularly the mounting hole centre of the Lotus caliper, and the offset to the disc relative to the mounting lugs on the MGF rear hub - but once I've done that, yes, if you're able to help out, that would be terrific ;D