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Post by apttony on Mar 7, 2004 6:08:17 GMT -5
Okay, this is a pet hate of mine......the quality and reliability of spare or new parts. First of all, a question - are any of the people on this board who have access to this area actually suppliers? At this stage I do not want to name names but I think it would be fair to know who is who. I have had no problem so far with buying Rover MGF spares - they may not be the best design, but they always fit and work the same way as the old item. What I do have a problem with is other suppliers whose parts do not fit the same way i.e. they foul where they shouldn't - the instructions are poor or non-existent, etc, etc. It's too late to be told "I'll send another one" when you have spent hours trying to get the thing to fit and would have to take it out again. It should fit first time.  So, how do we ensure that what we buy under the power and control of the Darkside is fit for the job and is worth the money? Complain - yes, but I feel that an individual can become simply a voice in the wilderness. Name & shame? Could do, but we must be fair about it. Private and confidential complaint from members of this or any other board, backed up with evidence? Probably the best way in my opinion, but I'd welcome your comments. Tony |
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Post by Dieter on Mar 7, 2004 13:49:34 GMT -5
Would echo what Tony said. I'd just disappear from this place if anyone from B&G, MS or Tech-Speed, DVA or any other supplier would have access to this forum. However, I'm thinking positive usually. So if there are complaints and *options to improve* it would not be bad talking about at this place. Please notice, I said *options to improve* and not just only *poor quality*.  *Someone* who can speak to the supplier face to face in careful way could forward welll specified complaints without telling anything about this Forum source. So this place would be the currently best place to chat about troubles with products. People here seam serious enough to verify whats sensitive and whats secret and how to take contact with the bad-part supplier. Improvemnets or corrections could get explained with specific background from this forum. I'd just like to start with a pair of seat belt escutcheons I sourced in last year *smile* Should have talked to the supplier already myself in last year, but didn't find time to. |
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Post by ScarletFever on Mar 7, 2004 16:38:32 GMT -5
This is a good idea guys and i would like to contribute (in a number of ways), the caution shown so far is very wise and i think Rob should have his say before any names are mentioned specifically - mainly from a libel point of view. I have some issues with a number of aftermarket items, most of which have been relayed back tot he supplier/manufacturer directly, but in most cases no changes have been made as far as i am aware. Basically, this zone is secret and as far as i am aware no suppliers have access to it. But who is to say what will happen in the future? For example, i have a couple of projects on the go which could potentially make me a supplier in the future. Do you see where i am going with this? Any one of us on here could set up a small business with the knowledge we have and produce a few items for sale and as we already have access to this zone, then there is a potential future conflict of interest. One of my ideas i would really like to discuss on here and get your feedback, especially as it would be a great help to me in finalising the details. But to do so may not be a wise decision as although i have done a lot of work on it, it is not ready yet and furthermore is quite stealable as an idea (not that i'm suggesting any of you would do such a thing!) So, there we go. Rob needs to comment and, as he is responsible for the site, decide on policy (or maybe put a disclaimer up somewhere). Over to you Rob.  |
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Post by Rob Bell on Mar 8, 2004 8:00:44 GMT -5
This is a good idea Tony - and no, no member of this forum has a connection with any currently known supplier/ manufacturer. We're all just customers.
I take on board Andy's point - that some current members may want to develop products that have a commercial interest. But I think that this would be a minority - and if anyone here had any constructive criticism, I'm sure that they'd love to hear it.
The Secret Squirrel Zone is only visible by those who have the access privileges. So a causual surfer to the Knitting Circle forum would not be able to access it. There are additional security features that can be provided, as a board *can* be password protected.
So I am not averse to there being a name and shame section on the Secret Squirrel on a private and confidential basis - but I am interested in hearing everyone else's thoughts as to what the ins and outs would be. Would the benefits outweigh the disadvantages?
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Post by BobMillar on Mar 8, 2004 8:53:49 GMT -5
Naming and shaming is a bit of a strong term but I for one would like to hear others opinions on items they have been displeased with.
Whenever anyone puts up a post on the BCBBS they are usually pointed in the direction of MS, DVA, B&G or the MGF Centre.
Since I first started posting on there I have never once seen anyone recommend Moss MGF
Now looking on there website they have a fantastic range of accessories for the MGF yet no one mentions their name. Is this due to a substandard product or service.
I know I havent purchased anything from them as the opinions of certain people are highly respected and they always recommend the usual suspects but if anyone was dissapointed with a product from anyone I'm sure we'd like to know.
After all we're forking out a considerable amount of cash and I'd like to know what I'm getting.
There can be nothing libelous in an honest opinion surely?
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Post by Rob Bell on Mar 8, 2004 9:10:55 GMT -5
Bob, I have had dealings with Moss in the past, and I can't fault them either for product or service quality. Both have been excellent.
I suspect what counts against Moss as an MGF supplier in the past has been cost: they're undercut by both B&G and Mike Satur. And B&G and Mike Satur are now undercut by the MGF Centre.
No idea how Moss' catalogue prices compare these days - but thanks to that historic precedent, they're not the first people who come to my mind when recommending a supplier. Nothing more sinister than that really.
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Post by ScarletFever on Mar 8, 2004 9:45:51 GMT -5
Moss
I have two issues with them, one is cost and the other is that they, like B+G, buy stuff in from others and market it as thier own. If you can find the original supplier/manufacturer 9 times out of 10 the same can be had for less direct.
It just smacks of a half hearted attempt to get in on the MGF/TF act to me.
B+G have a similar approach, but are a lot more comprehensive and generally are competitive from a price perspective. B+G have made more of an effort and thier catalogue is actually quite a little gold mine of stuff, some of which is quite obsure (uprated crank, forged pistons anyone?) ;D
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Post by dave on Mar 8, 2004 9:59:02 GMT -5
In general the market splits between accessories/products and service. Moss are into the former. They have always been a reseller of other people's MGF products. Pricing has always been better going direct to the original supplier.
B&G are the same when it comes to accessories. They sell Mike Satur's stuff, but usually at a higher price.
MGFCentre started doing something similar with Mike Satur's stuff, but have clearly moved on to doing their own thing - witness the roll over bars and glass rear window initiative. I don't think too many people have recognised what Victoria is up to yet, but Mike will surely feel the impact in the not too distant future.
Service is another matter and people will first of all recommend what they personally have experience of. I always recommend Tech-Speed as they are the people I know and trust. I've never used B&G, Mike Satur or MGFCentre for service and so can't comment from personal experience. However, there is then the 'heard about' recommendation. Most of us have heard of enough good reports of B&G, MS and MGFCentre's service operations to feel comfortable in inclusing them.
Where this board could be useful, is for us to mention those odd little things that detract from these suppliers reputations. Maybe they aren't enough to complain about, or maybe they are just isolated instances we wouldn't want to make public - momentary lapses, if you like, from what we perceive as normal levels of service. Whatever it is, using this private board would allow us to see any patterns or common grievances that wouldn't normally come to light.
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Post by apttony on Mar 8, 2004 11:53:08 GMT -5
It's good to see such a positive response to the idea, so maybe I should expand on my thoughts so far.
I agree with Dieter's point - "options to improve" and not just poor quality, but there is a fine line between the two. Improving the design is one thing, which in my mind implies that "it will work more efficiently", but I am thinking more along the lines that an items basic design should, for instance, at least fit properly, or instructions be clear.
I do not have an issue with anyone who is a member of this board developing their own commercial ideas - if they don't do it properly, then it will just come back and bite them in the bum anyway. I am more concerned about suppliers out there who are selling spares etc that, in my opinion and through my experience, really could be better. I do not have a problem with anyone showing enterprise and making a living, even a good living, providing we get what we think we are paying for. I suspect that there are a lot of younger people out there who do not realise that quality can usually be better if monitored. Fobbing off is not good enough.
Whilst it would be nice to include 'service', nobody likes paying the prices that are charged, and I feel it is a bit subjective, as opposed to a specific part not doing it's job or fitting, etc. Plus the fact that to ask for comments on service, I think the idea would get out of control and simply be too much at this stage - maybe later.
Now to the nitty gritty..............
To be meaningful such information needs to come from a much larger population than those on this board. My thoughts were to put a thread onto the BBS to the effect that someone** is conducting a survey in MGF parts/service quality, inviting those with a complaint to mail me directly, under the following conditions.
1. The complaint must be specific, not just a whinge.
2. The complaint must be backed up by detailed information as to what is/was actually wrong.
3. It should include the name of the supplier and date (approx) of purchase.
4. A complaint to the supplier should have been made at the time.
5. The response received.
6. Was it resolved?
7. Any substantiating evidence / photos / e-mails, etc.
( **I need to protect my own interests, i.e. not become blacklisted, just because I'm asking for opinions. Is that possible through this board, with auto-redirecting on to me?)
This information could then be collated and any repetitive nature highlighted. Going by some of the names that keep cropping up on the BBS board, it would soon become obvious to those who might be effected that someone is monitoring what is going on. It can only do some good.
Thoughts, please.
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Post by BobMillar on Mar 8, 2004 12:24:42 GMT -5
I do not have an issue with anyone who is a member of this board developing their own commercial ideas - if they don't do it properly, then it will just come back and bite them in the bum anyway. Thats good to hear. I'm now selling aluminium grille kits for the MGF. I've been selling them on eBay and they are of good quality. Put it this way I have them on my own car and I wouldnt sell or promote anything that I wouldnt be happy to use myself. I'm selling them at £25 for a set inc P&P. I've negotiated a deal where I can buy the raw materials at a discounted price hence why I can sell them quite cheaply. If anyone is interested or wants more info the PM me! (Sorry for the slight thread hijack but if I sell to someone on here and they like it then word of mouth is the best recommendation I can get ) |
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Post by Rob Bell on Mar 8, 2004 14:13:38 GMT -5
Sorry for the slight thread hijack but if I sell to someone on here and they like it then word of mouth is the best recommendation I can get You're not wrong there Bob. Any pix of your grilles? I've already got s/s grilles on my car, so probably not in the market - but I am always interested to see new products! **I need to protect my own interests, i.e. not become blacklisted, just because I'm asking for opinions. Is that possible through this board, with auto-redirecting on to me?I see what you are saying Tony. Unfortunately, this site doesn't come with any email addresses nor any forwarding system - so that's not of much use to you for this project. Wouldn't a new hotmail/yahoo email account serve the same purpose?
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Post by BobMillar on Mar 9, 2004 4:38:17 GMT -5
You're not wrong there Bob. Any pix of your grilles? I've already got s/s grilles on my car, so probably not in the market - but I am always interested to see new products! I should hopefully have some by the weekend. I made up two sets last night for my first two orders and it was very straightforward. They are currently drying out in my workshop after I lacquered them late last night! I'm also working on another range of accessories for the MGF as well but I'll give more details of them when I've finalised everything. At the moment my car is a bit of guinea pig! |
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Post by ScarletFever on Mar 9, 2004 11:25:19 GMT -5
Just added a ' [/ ' to the last QUOTE metatag Bob, so that the quote is diplayed properly (no changes to your text). ---------------------- Grilles sound good mate - again, like Rob i have my own set (powder coated items) so am not directly in the market but am always interested in new stuff. ---------------------- I am going to start a new thread regarding my idea that i'd like some feedback on - no point in taking this thread further off on a tangent. |
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Post by apttony on Mar 13, 2004 14:12:36 GMT -5
Well, that went down like a lead balloon  I guess if I want to progress this, then the only way is going to be by adding my name to the bottom and doing through my usual web address  Are any of you willing to add your names to the list, so it becomes a group thing and therefore protects our own interests? |
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Post by Rob Bell on Mar 14, 2004 18:46:28 GMT -5
Tony, I think that your idea is a great one. Perhaps the data could be entered as a web form (perhaps not unlike that used for shame.4mg.com)? Not sure how you'd display the results/ reward people entering data? Might be a way of supporting excellent products as well as documenting potential problems?
Paul's dealer guide went down a route of owners saying that such or such a dealer was good, rather than specifically being a 'sin bin' - perhaps this is how this project could be managed? Afterall, which trader is going to complain about free product endorsement? Might even offset any discomfort of thinking that any of their projects might be, er, well a bit duff...
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