Cheeky cheap cams???

[Rob Bell]

;D Absolutely right Tom - the cams would indeed be insurance friendly!

What's this about having to find a new job mate? I thought you were reasonably secure after the last round of redundancies?

[tom randell]

What's this about having to find a new job mate? I thought you were reasonably secure after the last round of redundancies?

fraid so job is going as site is cloosing .

[dave]

tom said:

fraid so job is going as site is cloosing .

Oh no! - So soon after your last disruption.

[Rob Bell]

Bob, Bill has been somewhat busy these last few days, so no quotes as yet on the 135 cams/heads (seems that he's more likely to sell the complete head rather than break it down into individual parts, but we'll see) - but hopefully have some more news a little later on today.

[BobMillar]

Thanks for the update Rob

[Rob Bell]

STILL not got a price back from Bill or Victoria... but Victoria promises to get Bill to phone me tomorrow with the cost for the complete 135 head.

They happen to have one in at the mo - here's hoping!

[Rob Bell]

Looks like it's going to be somewhere in the region of £235+VAT... with when one works it out as a complete head, valves, followers, springs, cams etc etc probably ain't all that bad value for money! ;D

[Rob Bell]

Uh oh! What have I done! TF135 head will soon be mine...

[Rob Bell]

Just had a rare quiet moment, so thought I'd do a little research on cams - and particularly, to find out more about the cams fitted to the TF135...

Well, things have just gotton very interesting indeed - the TF135 cams are wild in comparison to the standard cam found in the cooking 1.8MPi!

let's see if this table works...

MGF 1.8i

TF 115/135

VVC & 160

Piper BP255H

Piper BP270H 629/623

[/center][/tr]
[tr][td]Inlet[/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Opens [/td]

[td]12^o BTDC

[/td][td]11^o BTDC [/td][td]0^o BTDC [/td][td]14^o BTDC [/td][td]20^o BTDC/ 24^o BTDC [/td][/center][/tr]
[tr][td]Closes [/td]

[td]52^o ABDC

[/td][td]61^o ABDC [/td][td]40^o ABDC [/td][td]54^o ABDC [/td][td]60^o ABDC/ 64^o ABDC [/td][/center][/tr]
[tr][td]Exhaust[/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td] [td][/td] [/tr]
[tr][td]Opens [/td]

[td]52^o BBDC

[/td][td]51^o BBDC [/td][td]51^o BBDC [/td][td]54^oÊBBDC [/td][td]64^o BBDC/ 68^o BBDC [/td][/center][/tr]
[tr][td]Closes [/td]

[td]12^o ATDC

[/td][td]21^o ATDC [/td][td]21^o ATDC [/td][td]14^o ATDC [/td][td]16^o ATDC/ 20^o ATDC [/td][/tr]
[tr][/center][/tr]
[tr][td]Valve Open
Period
[/td]

[td]244^o

[/td][td]252^o [/td][td]220-295^o [/td][td] 248^o [/td][td] 260^o/268^o [/td][/center][/tr]
[tr][td]Valve Lift[/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td][td] [/td] [td][/td] [/tr]
[tr][td]Inlet [/td]

[td]8.8mm

[/td][td]9.5mm [/td][td]9.5mm [/td][td] 8.8mm [/td][td] 9.7mm/9.3mm [/td][/center][/tr]
[tr][td]Exhaust [/td]

[td]8.8mm

[/td][td]9.5mm [/td][td]9.2mm [/td][td] 8.8mm [/td][td] 9.7mm/9.3mm [/td][/center][/tr]
[/table]

Basically, the TF135 (AND the TF115!) uses a cam profile that is essentially very nearly as aggressive as the Piper BP270H grind!!! Curiously, according to the information on the Piper website, the BP255H and the BP270H cost the same - £355 - plus of course, the fitting kits etc. Makes me feel better about buying an entire head for 100 quid less! ;D

Interesting to see that the TF135 uses essentially the same exhaust cam profile as the VVC - albeit with an extra 0.3mm of lift...

Given the the inlet and exhaust cam profiles appear standardised on the non-VVC TFs, I wonder if other MGR 1.6 litre K-series uses these same cams, and therefore represent an even cheaper source of 'warm' cams from scrap yards?

That'd definitely be cheekily cheap!!! ;D

PS: Edited to include missing Piper BP270H (623) data ;D

[BobMillar]

May have found an even cheaper source

www.rovermart.co.uk/minster2.html


They're advertising new 1.8 K Series cams for £25 per pair!

[Rob Bell]

Are they standard 1.8 cams or 1.8 High-performance cams Bob? If the former, then I am afraid to say that they are the same as the ones currently in our cars...

[BobMillar]

Minister have just came back to me and said they are the 118 cams but will work on the 135.

They are obviously not aware of the differences!

One other thing about the 135 engine

Does it use the pastic or cast inlet manifold?

[Rob Bell]

That'd be a handy oversight if they ever were to sell off a pair of 135 cams

The 135 uses the VVC-style cast alloy inlet manifold/plenum Bob.

[BobMillar]

Rob said:

The 135 uses the VVC-style cast alloy inlet manifold/plenum Bob.

Ah so could this contribute to the 17 extra horses then as well as the cams?

[Rob Bell]

Well, there is only one way to find out!

Seriously though, I suspect that a nicely ported plastic manifold is very nearly as good as the alloy item (probably within a bhp or two) - and that the vast majority of the power comes from the improved breathing via the cams.

If you look at Dave Andrew's website, you'll see that for most of his kits he is a proponent of keeping the standard plastic fuel rail and inlet plenum for the better torque characteristics. Talking to him, he does seem to be of the opinion that the benefits of the alloy inlet manifold are minimal for the cost - which does seem at odds with MGR practice.

Curious.

Another downside is that the VVC plenum is not a great fit to the 1.8 MPi head: there isn't much of a mating surface (I had a look at some heads that Roger Parker had lying around in his garage). I wonder if they've [MGR] have altered the cylinder head casting or the casting of the plenum to suit the non-VVC head?